Need Help.

MattBleez · 06-29-2009, 07:25 PM

Well, I find that me and my workout partner often have different schedules so trying to stay together isn't exactly working. He has also been lifting for 2 years which means he is doing maybe more than I should. So here is what I am asking for:

I need someone to help set up a schedule for lifting. Here is some of (maybe all) what you need to know.

- I am new to lifting.
- I am not big in size (I weight anywhere between 140-150), About 6 feet tall.
- I would consider myself athletic, so I feel I can adapt and perform.

I am looking for a routine that will get me started in to weight lifting. I doubt sculpting is truly what I am looking for lol :P. I am looking to gain muscle.

If any more info is needed please let me know.

yours,

PS: I am looking to avoid dead lifts. So if there is an exercise to replace it, even if it's not AS effective, I would greatly appreciate it.

Edit- This is probably due to me being new, however I do often get "Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness", which can honestly last anywhere between 3-5 days. Thought that would be important to note, time between working exact muscles will be needed for a while. Once I work out more and become a little more seasoned I think it will go away.

jasonSuFi · 06-29-2009, 08:15 PM

Bleez, IM me when you see this for the information you seek. I can't link to other sites.

CRiTiCAL · 06-29-2009, 11:13 PM

Why don't you want to deadlift? I didn't deadlift for about 7 months and still built my back up, so it's doable. I would have tremendous pain in my spine, but after 3 months of chiropractic work, I'm back to deads, squats and such.

**fattony69** · 06-29-2009, 11:24 PM

Yeah yeah yeah, link him to H3F's thread when copy and paste works just as well

MattBleez · 06-29-2009, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by CRiTiCAL

Why don't you want to deadlift? I didn't deadlift for about 7 months and still built my back up, so it's doable. I would have tremendous pain in my spine, but after 3 months of chiropractic work, I'm back to deads, squats and such.

Simply put, a lot of people I have talked to have told me not to deadlift. Not only that but the form has to be absolutely picture perfect for it to work, I'd rather find another way to work my lower back. I've tried them and no matter what I lift with my legs. I can't seem to get the form.

yours,

CRiTiCAL · 06-30-2009, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by MattBleez

Simply put, a lot of people I have talked to have told me not to deadlift. Not only that but the form has to be absolutely picture perfect for it to work, I'd rather find another way to work my lower back. I've tried them and no matter what I lift with my legs. I can't seem to get the form.

yours,

Well, there's not really much to it. You bend over and lift the bar up. Using your legs isn't a bad thing. It's actually something that's good. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. You're just missing out on a great mass builder.

Acklete · 06-30-2009, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by CRiTiCAL

Why don't you want to deadlift? I didn't deadlift for about 7 months and still built my back up, so it's doable. I would have tremendous pain in my spine, but after 3 months of chiropractic work, I'm back to deads, squats and such.

deadlifting is singlehandedly the worst possible lift you can do. Deadlifting does not work any muscle better and more efficiently then an alternative lift cant accomplish, and it causes more injuries then any other lift out there.

I cant think of a single college football team that still has deadlifts in its rotation, hell even my old high school has removed it from the workouts.

Originally Posted by CRiTiCAL

Well, there's not really much to it. You bend over and lift the bar up. Using your legs isn't a bad thing. It's actually something that's good. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. You're just missing out on a great mass builder.

Its not a great mass builder, it is designed to strengthen the hips and lower back. Squats will strengthen the hips as well as the glutes and hams and calf muscles without putting your back in an unnatural position. As for lower back,

As for the lower back, IDK the name of the exercise but its dont with a machine, you sit on a bench and lean over a padded bar type thing and as you sit down bringing your chest to your knees it rotates the bar and adds resistance, its good for the lower back. The best way to strengthen the lower back though is through abb work, if you strengthen the core muscles your back will get stronger.

There is no reason what so ever to deadlift

~~Cristian~~ · 06-30-2009, 03:50 AM

You don't need to deadlift. I don't.

Just make sure you don't start off with too much weight, you can hurt yourself, that's what happened to me. Started off too heavy and I hurt myself.

CRiTiCAL · 06-30-2009, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Killer Quinn

deadlifting is singlehandedly the worst possible lift you can do. Deadlifting does not work any muscle better and more efficiently then an alternative lift cant accomplish, and it causes more injuries then any other lift out there.

I cant think of a single college football team that still has deadlifts in its rotation, hell even my old high school has removed it from the workouts.

Its not a great mass builder, it is designed to strengthen the hips and lower back. Squats will strengthen the hips as well as the glutes and hams and calf muscles without putting your back in an unnatural position. As for lower back,

As for the lower back, IDK the name of the exercise but its dont with a machine, you sit on a bench and lean over a padded bar type thing and as you sit down bringing your chest to your knees it rotates the bar and adds resistance, its good for the lower back. The best way to strengthen the lower back though is through abb work, if you strengthen the core muscles your back will get stronger.

There is no reason what so ever to deadlift

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Squats, by far, are the most dangerous exercises that you can do. You but so much stress on your spine that injuries are bound to come with it. Deadlifts, preformed right are a very safe exercise.

Deadlifting also is considered to be not only a great mass builder, but the best mass builder there is as far as exercises are concerned. Many experts and professional bodybuilders are in agreeance with this. The deadlift works more muscles simultaneously than any other exercise.

Here's a quote from Schwarzenegger: "BODYBUILDING IS ABOUT molding muscle into a living, breathing artistic sculpture. But before you work on such aesthetic qualities as shape, proportion and symmetry, you first have to build the mass to sculpt. Achieving this requires multijoint exercises that work the most muscle possible, such as the bench press, overhead press, bent-over barbell row and squat. But one of the most valuable exercises--and perhaps the most underutilized mass-building move out there--is the deadlift."

Dead on target: want to add mass to your upper and lower body? One move can do both | Muscle & Fitness | Find Articles at BNET

Here's another expert from a different article.

Minimum Equipment

It requires little in the way of equipment and preparation. A bar and the willingness to lift it are the only real requirements for a successful deadlift. Wraps are optional, and in many cases, not required.

Core Stability

It builds core stability. The deadlift directly targets all of the major muscle groups responsible for correct posture and core strength. Correct deadlifting technique enables one to hold their back straight when engaging in daily activities, due to its emphasis on maintaining a straight back throughout its movement.

The deadlift will also strengthen all the surrounding supporting muscles of the waist, backside, hips and, of course, lower back. Core strength is important in terms of maintaining ones balance, and weight transference (whether in sport or daily life).

More Muscles Worked

As mentioned, it works more muscles simultaneously than any other movement (yes, including even the beloved squat). The many muscles the deadlift targets will be discussed in the next section. The deadlift truly forces the whole body to grow.

Safety

It is relatively risk free and safe to perform. With the deadlift, there is no risk of getting pinned under a maximum lift (as with the squat and bench press), and provided form is correct, will not unduly stress any of the major joints.

Real Life Application

It has a real life application. Lifting objects from the ground, from a variety of angles, is enhanced through regular deadlifting. The real life functionality of the deadlift comes into play when one becomes strong enough to lift a heavy object (furniture for example), while decreasing the likelihood of injuring themselves.

Gripping Strength

It develops gripping strength. If done without wraps, the deadlift will strengthen the grip like no other movement due to the sheer weight involved (it is not uncommon for one to work up to 300+ pounds for repetitions).

True Measure Of Strength

It could be argued that, in a powerlifting context, the deadlift is a true measure of strength due to its lack of emphasis on various performance aids (suits etc). It also employs more muscle groups, and therefore could be deemed a better test of overall muscle strength.

Special Appeal

It has a special appeal. Simply picking a weight off the floor, and engaging all major muscle groups in the process, has a special primordial appeal - sort of like ripping a gigantic tree out of the ground. Standing and holding the massive weight also promotes a feeling of immense power

Cardio Respiratory Fitness

It helps to develop cardio respiratory fitness. Like the squat, deadlifts will severely tax the cardio respiratory system if done with enough intensity. This obviously has positive ramifications for cardiovascular health. In fact, high intensity deadlifts aerobically tax the body big time.

Bodybuilding.com - David Robson - Deadlifts: The King Of Mass-Builders?

jasonSuFi · 06-30-2009, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by fattony69

Yeah yeah yeah, link him to H3F's thread when copy and paste works just as well

You want it so bad, you copy and paste it yourself. I'm not going to steal someone's work just because you don't want me linking him to another site.

Piss off.

Originally Posted by Killer Quinn

As for the lower back, IDK the name of the exercise but its dont with a machine, you sit on a bench and lean over a padded bar type thing and as you sit down bringing your chest to your knees it rotates the bar and adds resistance, its good for the lower back. The best way to strengthen the lower back though is through abb work, if you strengthen the core muscles your back will get stronger.

There is no reason what so ever to deadlift

The name of the exercise you are looking for is Hyperextensions.

I'm not getting in the middle of this whole deadlift debate.

Acklete · 07-01-2009, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by jasonSuFi

The name of the exercise you are looking for is Hyperextensions.

Thanks I had no idea what the name of the exercise was.

@ I have been lifting since I was 12 years old, I have had a personal trainers for about 8 years of that time. I will take my personal experience with Deadlifting, the advise from the doctors I have asked and who have specifically told me not to deadlift. I have seen multiple hernias happen from people deadlifting, I have seen herniated discs happen instantly ending careers of football players. I have never ever seen a serious injury from squats, the worst thing I have seen is a pulled muscle.

The point I am getting at, is that I would take the advise of professionals in the medical field as well as the professionals in the exercise field over some internet websites.

If you have ever seen a picture of me which you probably have, I am no slouch in the weight room, and I have not deadlifted since I was in 9th grade, and I have put on plenty of mass

CRiTiCAL · 07-01-2009, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Killer Quinn

Thanks I had no idea what the name of the exercise was.

@ I have been lifting since I was 12 years old, I have had a personal trainers for about 8 years of that time. I will take my personal experience with Deadlifting, the advise from the doctors I have asked and who have specifically told me not to deadlift. I have seen multiple hernias happen from people deadlifting, I have seen herniated discs happen instantly ending careers of football players. I have never ever seen a serious injury from squats, the worst thing I have seen is a pulled muscle.

The point I am getting at, is that I would take the advise of professionals in the medical field as well as the professionals in the exercise field over some internet websites.

If you have ever seen a picture of me which you probably have, I am no slouch in the weight room, and I have not deadlifted since I was in 9th grade, and I have put on plenty of mass

Are you saying your opinion trumps that of a 7 TIME MR.OLYMPIA? That is ludicrous. And, you're also trying to discredit an article on bodybuilding.com? Both are 10x more credible than some random person on the internet.

Also, since you have put on mass, that means something you didn't do since the 9th grade isn't a good mass builder? That logic seems a little flawed.

I also find is humorous that you last deadlifted when you were in the 9th grade, yet you claim that when you were 17 you deadlifted 530lbs. Something's not adding up here. Your maxes are obviously bullshit. I think this proves it.

Originally Posted by Killer Quinn

never ever heard of anyone maxing out on curls much lets two different styles of curls... When I was 17 these were my maxes because that was the best shape I was ever in
I weighed when i set these records i ended up playing ball at 185
Bench 315 School record
Squat 505 (age 18 playing college football)
power clean 265 weak IMO School record
incline 285 School record
Deadlift 530
I also tried to break the record for leg press but we had to do it 8 times at my school before they would count it, I did 1200 but didnt get the record

Acklete · 07-01-2009, 03:09 AM

I only deadlifted for my max, i did not workout deadlifts. but its ok you can discredit me all you want. I probably made those lifts up. Would you rather me video me benching 300+?

And no a MR Olympia does not mean anything to me until he gets some medical training.

BTW you seriously care way to much if you actually go back and find posts from dead sites from a year or more ago.

CRiTiCAL · 07-01-2009, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by Killer Quinn

I only deadlifted for my max, i did not workout deadlifts. but its ok you can discredit me all you want. I probably made those lifts up. Would you rather me video me benching 300+?

And no a MR Olympia does not mean anything to me until he gets some medical training.

BTW you seriously care way to much if you actually go back and find posts from dead sites from a year or more ago.

So you're saying a medical doctor, someone who probably doesn't even lift weights, has more experience with weightlifting and everything that goes with it than a 7 time Mr.O? You're stupid. There's no doctor on the earth that knows more than Arnold. Doctors don't study specific weight training exercises. The man has THE encyclopedia on bodybuilding. He wrote the freakin' book.

So let me get this straight. You stop deadlifting for 2 years because it's dangerous and a horrible exercise says you, than you go and lift a supposed 530lbs going for your max? That's even more outlandish than your initial claim. Not doing an exercise because it's dangerous then trying for a max two years later.

MattBleez · 07-01-2009, 10:16 PM

Alright. Yesterday I tested Jason's patience and came up with a routine using guidelines set by some info he showed me. I switched some of it up to add an exercise or 2 that I liked, and with some more advice from Jason.

I will say, it's annoying as hell not being able to tell if someone is "typing a message" on AIM. Anyone know how I can fix that? It simply isn't there anymore.

Anyway. Here is the schedule. Pretty basic but I am looking for opinions.

Monday:

Chest-

Flat Bench 4 x 6-8
Incline Bench 4x 6-8

Back-

Wide Grip Pulldowns 3 x 8-10
Supported Rows 3 x 8-10
A lower back exercise (either hyperextensions or lying back presses) 30-50

Abs-

Leg Raises 25
Sit Ups 50
Decline Crunches 50
Crunches 50

Wednesday:

Legs-

Leg Extensions 3 x 12-15
Squats 3 x 8-10
Lying Leg Curls 3 x 10-12
Standing Calf Raises 3 x 10-12

Shoulders-

Military Press 3 x 8-10
Upright Row 3 x 8-10
Shrugs 3 x 8-10

Friday:

Bi's-

Standing curls (dumbbell) 4 x 6-8
Preacher curls 4 x 6-8

Tri's-

Narrow Grip Bench 4 x 6-8
Tricep extension (seated) 4 x 6-8

Forearms-

Reverse Curls 3 x 10-12

----------------

What do you guys think? Anything being neglected etc. etc.?

yours,

06-29-2009, 07:25 PM	#1
MattBleez The Superior 3000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,174 Location: Saint John, NB, Canada Gallery: 0 Credits: 5,311	Need Help. Well, I find that me and my workout partner often have different schedules so trying to stay together isn't exactly working. He has also been lifting for 2 years which means he is doing maybe more than I should. So here is what I am asking for: I need someone to help set up a schedule for lifting. Here is some of (maybe all) what you need to know. - I am new to lifting. - I am not big in size (I weight anywhere between 140-150), About 6 feet tall. - I would consider myself athletic, so I feel I can adapt and perform. I am looking for a routine that will get me started in to weight lifting. I doubt sculpting is truly what I am looking for lol :P. I am looking to gain muscle. If any more info is needed please let me know. yours, PS: I am looking to avoid dead lifts. So if there is an exercise to replace it, even if it's not AS effective, I would greatly appreciate it. Edit- This is probably due to me being new, however I do often get "Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness", which can honestly last anywhere between 3-5 days. Thought that would be important to note, time between working exact muscles will be needed for a while. Once I work out more and become a little more seasoned I think it will go away. Last edited by MattBleez; 06-29-2009 at 07:32 PM.

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06-29-2009, 08:15 PM	#2
jasonSuFi Official Forum Badass TBFE is My Life Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,672 Location: Orlando Gallery: 20 Credits: 2,708 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1	Bleez, IM me when you see this for the information you seek. I can't link to other sites.

06-29-2009, 11:13 PM	#3
CRiTiCAL TBFE Level 7 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227 Location: California Gallery: 0 Credits: 178	Why don't you want to deadlift? I didn't deadlift for about 7 months and still built my back up, so it's doable. I would have tremendous pain in my spine, but after 3 months of chiropractic work, I'm back to deads, squats and such.

06-29-2009, 11:24 PM	#4
fattony69 Best Forum Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,234 Location: Off-Topic Forum Gallery: 562 Credits: 282 Blog Entries: 10 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 9-Ball Champion!	Yeah yeah yeah, link him to H3F's thread when copy and paste works just as well

06-30-2009, 03:50 AM	#8
~~Cristian~~ The Superior 2000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,463 Location: cali Gallery: 0 Credits: 4,769 Acceleracers Track Mod Champion! Asteroids Champion! Attack from the Influenza Chickens Champion! Frogger Champion! Invaders 2002 Champion! Invasion 2196 Champion! Jackhammer Rampage Champion! Shield Shot Champion! Snake Champion! X-Training Champion!	You don't need to deadlift. I don't. Just make sure you don't start off with too much weight, you can hurt yourself, that's what happened to me. Started off too heavy and I hurt myself.

07-01-2009, 03:09 AM	#13
Acklete TBFE MLGenius The Superior 4000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,400 Location: Listening to Tool Gallery: 0 Credits: 295	I only deadlifted for my max, i did not workout deadlifts. but its ok you can discredit me all you want. I probably made those lifts up. Would you rather me video me benching 300+? And no a MR Olympia does not mean anything to me until he gets some medical training. BTW you seriously care way to much if you actually go back and find posts from dead sites from a year or more ago.

07-01-2009, 10:16 PM	#15
MattBleez The Superior 3000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,174 Location: Saint John, NB, Canada Gallery: 0 Credits: 5,311	Alright. Yesterday I tested Jason's patience and came up with a routine using guidelines set by some info he showed me. I switched some of it up to add an exercise or 2 that I liked, and with some more advice from Jason. I will say, it's annoying as hell not being able to tell if someone is "typing a message" on AIM. Anyone know how I can fix that? It simply isn't there anymore. Anyway. Here is the schedule. Pretty basic but I am looking for opinions. Monday: Chest- Flat Bench 4 x 6-8 Incline Bench 4x 6-8 Back- Wide Grip Pulldowns 3 x 8-10 Supported Rows 3 x 8-10 A lower back exercise (either hyperextensions or lying back presses) 30-50 Abs- Leg Raises 25 Sit Ups 50 Decline Crunches 50 Crunches 50 Wednesday: Legs- Leg Extensions 3 x 12-15 Squats 3 x 8-10 Lying Leg Curls 3 x 10-12 Standing Calf Raises 3 x 10-12 Shoulders- Military Press 3 x 8-10 Upright Row 3 x 8-10 Shrugs 3 x 8-10 Friday: Bi's- Standing curls (dumbbell) 4 x 6-8 Preacher curls 4 x 6-8 Tri's- Narrow Grip Bench 4 x 6-8 Tricep extension (seated) 4 x 6-8 Forearms- Reverse Curls 3 x 10-12 ---------------- What do you guys think? Anything being neglected etc. etc.? yours,

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