ufc is joke and those judges are a joke

capemcrunk · 10-26-2009, 12:37 AM

UFC is all about marketing, Dana is a business man, and knows what makes money, ie the whole reason for a rematch. After the fight, you can see Dana mouth "you won the fight" to Rua as he shakes his hand.

MattBleez · 10-26-2009, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Acklete

I am watching right now as I type this will update round by round

round 1: 10-9 Machida. He starts off with some very nice clinches knees, Rua has some good low kicks, nothing of power came from anyone besides Machidas mid kicks and knees. Good technical round that could go either way I still give it to Machida though

round 2: 10-9 Machida. Again Machida lands all the strong moves. He has a sweeping kick and a punch that both nearly knock Rua down. Rua has some nice mid kicks but they are not near the power of Machidas. Machida does get worked at the end of the round with those knees to the thigh but other then that I think its an easy 10-9 Machida. Just because Rua is running forward does not mean he is controlling the fight, the torque and power behind every Machida hit is ridiculous and thats why he is winning through two rounds.

Round 3: 10-9 Machida. I had this a push until the final 1:30 where Machida took it to him. I think before that you really saw the agressive Shootboxing of Rua he was attacking landing a lot of technical Thai shots but overall nothing really powerful. Machida had a great exchange at the end very technical with his boxing and he threw in some amazing karate style kicks which look wicked

Round 4: 10-9 Rua. Leg kicks really start to take a toll on Machida and he has lost quite the step, he is not attacking with that spring in his step he normally has, the one real exchange that took place I think Machida won, but besides that he got dominated and was not aggressive at all

Round 5: 10-9 Rua. Rua controlled this round landed all significant strikes, good clinch game. Machida landed a few strikes nothing serious and did enough to give himself 9

I think the fight comes down to the 3rd round which I gave to Machida. I can see people getting upset but this was by no means a blowout win by either fighter. To be the champ you have to beat the champ which was not clearly done. Neither fighter scores a take down, Rua was aggressive but this is obvious all shootboxing camp fighters are aggressive. The first 3 round were methotical the quicker more fierce strikes were from Machida... I am confused on where all this blowout 50-45 or 49-46 scoring is coming from that I am seeing. I think Machida won, yes he lost the last two round by a larger margin then Rua lost any rounds, but when it came down to it I have Machida winning more rounds

I can't say I am at all surprised. You are one of the 1% that think he won. I have honestly been looking for a single mma "authority" that gave the fight to Machida. I can't find one.

I won't go in too far because this decision (the worst of all time) pisses me off to much. 1,2,4,5 easily went to Rua in my eyes.

In all seriousness I am looking for an "authority" to go against my view, because too often people make the horrible mistake of only looking for things that are for their argument, not against. I simply can't find one.

UFC 104 play-by-play commentary & results |
UFC 104 live results and play by play | MMAjunkie.com
UFC 104 Results and Live Play-by-Play
UFC 104: Machida vs. Shogun LIVE Play-by-Play Results - 5thRound.com – UFC 104 Play-by-Play Results, MMA News, Fight Rumors

Those are just some, I looked for a good hour or 2 yesterday to see if I could find a single one. I know you dislike Shogun, or at least seemed to very much so. I wonder if that gets in the way, but your play by play is horrible IMO.

Even Dana White said Shogun won the fight. ESPN had Shogun as the new champion prematurely, expected the obvious. Same as the score. They had it on their ticker for like 15 minutes FFS.

I wonder sometimes if you go against the grain just to do it. I don't mean that as an insult but it seems to fit your personality.

Rua did absolutely EVERYTHING better than Machida. There is not a single area Machida did better overall. A complete shut down of Machida.

----

Edit- Got to say, what a swing for Machida. He went from one of the most beloved fighters, everyone cheering his name... to probably the most hated... him and Lesnar are a toss up. Lol.

----

Edit2- Love this quote from a play by play at the end of the 4th round:

"Machida’s corner told him he was winning the fight and he is not, can’t be. They should not be telling him that because he literally could think that. They are still telling him he’s doing good."

yours,

Acklete · 10-26-2009, 01:08 AM

I just watched it with my computer and broke it down as I saw, I think what you and many others are using controlling the fight and fight domination, is aggressive shootbox academy fighting. I dont like Machida or Rua so I dont see how I have an bias in this fight. Just because you are running forward does not mean you are winning the fight.

Machida much like Liddel normally win fights off counter punching, he probably threw 20-30 if not more less strikes but his were more technical and powerful.

Rua landed a great elbow in the clinch and destroyed Machidas legs

Machida destroyed the midsection of Rua and had more tehcnical boxing.

3-2 the fight could go either way and imo you need to beat the champ decisively to win that fight which he did not do. I cant in my right mind figure out how you can give round 1 to Rua. The initial rush of bombarding knees was the most powerful and lethal thing of the round and nearly the whole fight and this came from machida. He also ended the round stronger if i remember correctly.

I am going to bed, but just for the record I went back and read the start of the UFC play by play and the final sentence is about Rua doing some good things, but the the brunt of the attacks thrown are given to Machida according to his "play by play"

Edit: As for you saying I am going against the grain for the sake of doing so thats like the pot calling the kettle black... Remember you saying that H3 was a better more balanced game with a better spawn system lol. You try to start arguments even when one can not be made, I clearly see this fight going 3-2 in favor of one fighter, I could even given round 2, 4, 5 to Rua but you need to dominate the champion to win the fight which he did not do by any means, he pressed the action but landed nothing powerful except leg kicks and one elbow, he looked like a quicker forest griffin. Machida landed more combo's landed more technical combo's and had more torque and power behind his attacks.

Acklete · 10-26-2009, 01:21 AM

I would like to point out by the end of the fight Rua had won, the problem is its not how the fighters end its done by a scoring system that break down the fight round by round. Rua lost the first 3 rounds imo and won the last two easily. If you judged the entire bout as if it were a single round with just like timeouts I again give the fight to Rua, the problem is its not done that way, when the fight was over Rua still looked fresh and really took no severe punishment.

Now with that said Machida besides his legs took no real punishment either. The combo's and power came in the first 3 rounds and they were all by machida, yes he threw less strikes, but he landed the majority of his and the majority of his strikes had power, you dont see him jabbing, you dont see him do much dirty boxing you see Karate which is powerful stuff.

If this fight was a fight to the death or until one man gave up then no doubt in my mind that Rua wins, I think the scoring system needs to be changed, I hate nothing more then a decision and half the time I disagree with the outcome, but if you break it down by round I see Rua losing this fight.

You do not have to agree with me its just how I see it. Rua was tough and agressive and endured the fight. Machida was slow and methodical like always and landed his quick furries the problem is he didnt get a KO or TKO which in the long run wore him down

MattBleez · 10-26-2009, 01:23 AM

I won't continue this, my post covers everything I would repeat anyway. I'll let you have your view. I've posted enough on my side anyway, no need to dig for more. We both know this is a pointless argument anyway.

If you can find me a SINGLE respectable MMA site/authority that gave the fight to Machida, I will re-evaluate your view, but right now I simply find it ludicrous.

Edit for your new post. Machida took the worst of the beating in terms of damage and powerful strikes. Machida missed a lot more than you may think and his mid section was severely damaged, along with his lead leg (which he often switched stances because of, look at his corner, his leg was fucked up).

IMO Rua not only landed more, but did more damage, hit more significant strikes, controlled, and simply out struck Machida.

yours,

Acklete · 10-26-2009, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by MattBleez

I won't continue this, my post covers everything I would repeat anyway. I'll let you have your view. I've posted enough on my side anyway, no need to dig for more. We both know this is a pointless argument anyway.

If you can find me a SINGLE respectable MMA site/authority that gave the fight to Machida, I will re-evaluate your view, but right now I simply find it ludicrous.

yours,

I dont need a site or a guy on youtube with a blue belt in BJJ to tell me who won the fight. I have trained in MMA yes it was a short period of time but I have watched years of fights and I know how the scoring of MMA fights are done. Just because people are upset that the more exciting fighter in this particular fight lost, does not mean they are correct. Exciting shootboxing vs a slow paced pick you punches and kicks Karate guy. I have never been excited by Machida I find him extremely boring. I just thank god that the Mark Coleman Rua didnt come to fight this time.

The scoring system gives the win to Machida even if he didnt "win" the fight. Rua will go home less injured and what not but a decision is a decision and I agree with it, thats why it was a unanimous decision and not a split decision.

MattBleez · 10-26-2009, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Acklete

I dont need a site or a guy on youtube with a blue belt in BJJ to tell me who won the fight. I have trained in MMA yes it was a short period of time but I have watched years of fights and I know how the scoring of MMA fights are done. Just because people are upset that the more exciting fighter in this particular fight lost, does not mean they are correct. Exciting shootboxing vs a slow paced pick you punches and kicks Karate guy. I have never been excited by Machida I find him extremely boring. I just thank god that the Mark Coleman Rua didnt come to fight this time.

The scoring system gives the win to Machida even if he didnt "win" the fight. Rua will go home less injured and what not but a decision is a decision and I agree with it, thats why it was a unanimous decision and not a split decision.

I am not looking for him, I am looking at people who do this for a living. People who actually have knowledge much greater than ours who do their best to do so as unbiased as possible. We both know Machida was the more popular fighter overall going in to this fight in the mainstream eyes.

Even in a round by round basis I and many many others saw it go to Shogun.

We aren't very good at stopping this =/, but I'll do my best. I've already lost 3 hours of sleep due to this decision, I don't want to be laying in bed thinking about this again.

yours,

Acklete · 10-26-2009, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by MattBleez

I am not looking for him, I am looking at people who do this for a living. People who actually have knowledge much greater than ours who do their best to do so as unbiased as possible. We both know Machida was the more popular fighter overall going in to this fight in the mainstream eyes.

Even in a round by round basis I and many many others saw it go to Shogun.

We aren't very good at stopping this =/.

yours,

Like I said Rua "won" the fight, but scoring wise I in no way can easily give Rua 3 rounds, I give him 2 dominate round and a round that could go either way. I still think Machida won the first 3 and being the champ thats all he needs to do to win the fight.

I truthfully have no bias in this fight I am a fan of neither and I dont think I will ever like either. I think matchup wise Rua was very good against Machida, I think in a rematch though Rua will have to shoot and actually get the takedown to win, because Machida will have learned a lot.

I also think if Rua wins next time he wont defend his title, I dont think he is nearly as good as some of the other 205ers, I actually would love to see Evan destroy Rua which I think he would

MattBleez · 10-26-2009, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Acklete

Like I said Rua "won" the fight, but scoring wise I in no way can easily give Rua 3 rounds, I give him 2 dominate round and a round that could go either way. I still think Machida won the first 3 and being the champ thats all he needs to do to win the fight.

I see round 3 (due to a single flurry) going to Machida. I see round 1 being close, but Shogun doing more overall.

If I went round by round in rounds 1,2,4,5 I honestly see not a single area where Machida was better. Same goes with round 3 besides a single flurry.

-------------------

The whole rematch thing sucks because Machida is to gain from this. Machida will learn a lot from this fight, Shogun won't learn anything he fought the perfect fight IMO. If you beat someone you do the same thing to beat them again. The other person is the one to improve.

I can't see Evans touching either fighter, as of right now he is 3rd on my list of 205ers. However I see him having a better shot at Rua even though Rua is #1 IMO.

This is the last post for me tonight no matter what.

yours,

uWantSomeMo · 10-26-2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by MattBleez

I am not looking for him, I am looking at people who do this for a living. People who actually have knowledge much greater than ours who do their best to do so as unbiased as possible. We both know Machida was the more popular fighter overall going in to this fight in the mainstream eyes.

yours,

I do, so let me tell you what I thought of the fight:

balllz

MattBleez · 10-26-2009, 09:08 PM

I want to touch on what I said about simply going against it to against again because I have just experienced it and can word what I am trying to say better.

Right now me and my dad are watching Monday Night Football. Pretty much since the start of Jason being QB for Washington my dad has disliked him. I am watching the game, and Jason has sucked dick, but because my dad has this idea it makes what Jason does right seem to be worth more than his obvious mistakes.

I don't do this on purpose, but it's there. I do it without noticing and I think we are in the same boat, along with a lot of people.

I'll repeat what I said using the Washington game as an example:

"I am watching the game, and Jason has sucked dick, but because my dad has this idea it makes what Jason does right seem to be worth more than his obvious mistakes."

Info that has already been acquired changes perception.

In conclusion:

I honestly truly believe that if you watched the fight live, you would say Shogun won.

BTW it's weird "arguing" here because it's rare that neither of us seem to be truly attacking in the sense that we usually do... the fuck.

yours,

Leaky · 10-27-2009, 09:34 PM

Just read this, and figured it gives some good insight into the fight scoring. And I too thought Shogun was going to win as I was watching it, but then again I don't really know how to score fights well.

MMA Ratings: Breaking down Machida vs Rua

Acklete · 10-27-2009, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Leaky

Just read this, and figured it gives some good insight into the fight scoring. And I too thought Shogun was going to win as I was watching it, but then again I don't really know how to score fights well.

MMA Ratings: Breaking down Machida vs Rua

that was an amazing blog and the way he broke down the strikes is nearly exactly how I pointed out my strikes in my mini round summary. That is exactly why I had Machida winning I have it built around heavy strikes landed. I love leg kicks my favorite fighter (thiago Alves) has the best leg kicks in the game but what he does differently then Rua is set up other strikes with those leg kicks. Rua used those leg kicks as his entire offense, which I dont think it is, the way Alves uses them is as an offense he often drops opponents or hurts them so bad they lift their leg and step back allowing him to punish his opponent.

Rua obviously slowed Machida down but never capitalized on it, and I dont think you win fights off leg kicks

ESPN MAST3R · 10-28-2009, 12:15 AM

It was certainly a good read.

10-26-2009, 01:08 AM	#18
Acklete TBFE MLGenius The Superior 4000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,982 Location: Listening to Tool Gallery: 0 Credits: 879	I just watched it with my computer and broke it down as I saw, I think what you and many others are using controlling the fight and fight domination, is aggressive shootbox academy fighting. I dont like Machida or Rua so I dont see how I have an bias in this fight. Just because you are running forward does not mean you are winning the fight. Machida much like Liddel normally win fights off counter punching, he probably threw 20-30 if not more less strikes but his were more technical and powerful. Rua landed a great elbow in the clinch and destroyed Machidas legs Machida destroyed the midsection of Rua and had more tehcnical boxing. 3-2 the fight could go either way and imo you need to beat the champ decisively to win that fight which he did not do. I cant in my right mind figure out how you can give round 1 to Rua. The initial rush of bombarding knees was the most powerful and lethal thing of the round and nearly the whole fight and this came from machida. He also ended the round stronger if i remember correctly. I am going to bed, but just for the record I went back and read the start of the UFC play by play and the final sentence is about Rua doing some good things, but the the brunt of the attacks thrown are given to Machida according to his "play by play" Edit: As for you saying I am going against the grain for the sake of doing so thats like the pot calling the kettle black... Remember you saying that H3 was a better more balanced game with a better spawn system lol. You try to start arguments even when one can not be made, I clearly see this fight going 3-2 in favor of one fighter, I could even given round 2, 4, 5 to Rua but you need to dominate the champion to win the fight which he did not do by any means, he pressed the action but landed nothing powerful except leg kicks and one elbow, he looked like a quicker forest griffin. Machida landed more combo's landed more technical combo's and had more torque and power behind his attacks. Last edited by Acklete; 10-26-2009 at 01:15 AM.

10-26-2009, 01:23 AM	#20
MattBleez The Superior 3000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,407 Location: Saint John, NB, Canada Gallery: 0 Credits: 5,542	I won't continue this, my post covers everything I would repeat anyway. I'll let you have your view. I've posted enough on my side anyway, no need to dig for more. We both know this is a pointless argument anyway. If you can find me a SINGLE respectable MMA site/authority that gave the fight to Machida, I will re-evaluate your view, but right now I simply find it ludicrous. Edit for your new post. Machida took the worst of the beating in terms of damage and powerful strikes. Machida missed a lot more than you may think and his mid section was severely damaged, along with his lead leg (which he often switched stances because of, look at his corner, his leg was fucked up). IMO Rua not only landed more, but did more damage, hit more significant strikes, controlled, and simply out struck Machida. yours, Last edited by MattBleez; 10-26-2009 at 01:27 AM.

10-26-2009, 09:08 PM	#26
MattBleez The Superior 3000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,407 Location: Saint John, NB, Canada Gallery: 0 Credits: 5,542	I want to touch on what I said about simply going against it to against again because I have just experienced it and can word what I am trying to say better. Right now me and my dad are watching Monday Night Football. Pretty much since the start of Jason being QB for Washington my dad has disliked him. I am watching the game, and Jason has sucked dick, but because my dad has this idea it makes what Jason does right seem to be worth more than his obvious mistakes. I don't do this on purpose, but it's there. I do it without noticing and I think we are in the same boat, along with a lot of people. I'll repeat what I said using the Washington game as an example: "I am watching the game, and Jason has sucked dick, but because my dad has this idea it makes what Jason does right seem to be worth more than his obvious mistakes." Info that has already been acquired changes perception. In conclusion: I honestly truly believe that if you watched the fight live, you would say Shogun won. BTW it's weird "arguing" here because it's rare that neither of us seem to be truly attacking in the sense that we usually do... the fuck. yours, Last edited by MattBleez; 10-26-2009 at 09:16 PM.

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10-26-2009, 12:37 AM	#16
capemcrunk TBFE Level 9 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 721 Location: Seattle, WA Gallery: 0 Credits: 800	UFC is all about marketing, Dana is a business man, and knows what makes money, ie the whole reason for a rematch. After the fight, you can see Dana mouth "you won the fight" to Rua as he shakes his hand.

10-26-2009, 01:21 AM	#19
Acklete TBFE MLGenius The Superior 4000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,982 Location: Listening to Tool Gallery: 0 Credits: 879	I would like to point out by the end of the fight Rua had won, the problem is its not how the fighters end its done by a scoring system that break down the fight round by round. Rua lost the first 3 rounds imo and won the last two easily. If you judged the entire bout as if it were a single round with just like timeouts I again give the fight to Rua, the problem is its not done that way, when the fight was over Rua still looked fresh and really took no severe punishment. Now with that said Machida besides his legs took no real punishment either. The combo's and power came in the first 3 rounds and they were all by machida, yes he threw less strikes, but he landed the majority of his and the majority of his strikes had power, you dont see him jabbing, you dont see him do much dirty boxing you see Karate which is powerful stuff. If this fight was a fight to the death or until one man gave up then no doubt in my mind that Rua wins, I think the scoring system needs to be changed, I hate nothing more then a decision and half the time I disagree with the outcome, but if you break it down by round I see Rua losing this fight. You do not have to agree with me its just how I see it. Rua was tough and agressive and endured the fight. Machida was slow and methodical like always and landed his quick furries the problem is he didnt get a KO or TKO which in the long run wore him down

10-27-2009, 09:34 PM	#27
Leaky Best Team 1000 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,455 Location: MD Gallery: 0 Credits: 6,481	Just read this, and figured it gives some good insight into the fight scoring. And I too thought Shogun was going to win as I was watching it, but then again I don't really know how to score fights well. MMA Ratings: Breaking down Machida vs Rua

10-28-2009, 12:15 AM	#29
ESPN MAST3R The Realist Best Team 1000 Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,189 Location: Kyoto, Japan Gallery: 6 Credits: 706 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 2	It was certainly a good read.

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